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BIG PICTURE: OSCARS: INANITY WAR


Okay, alright…alright that’s pretty goddamn hilarious but no for real through what actually won? …really. Wow. That’s uh… that’s just… awful. The Academy Awards have come and gone, meaning
my obligation to give a damn will be over for another 11 to 10 months – lucky me. In any case, the big story of the year in
my circles since… y’know, I do this for a living… was the historic achievement of
Marvel’s Black Panther (itself already a landmark film for genre-representation and
unprecedented success for a predominantly Black production) having become the first
superhero movie to be nominated for Best Picture. And while it may not have ultimately taken
the prize (perhaps dependant on the unique “ranked choice” ballot The Academy uses
for Best Picture voting; where being a widely-liked movie that isn’t most people’s top pick
but nobody really despises is often ultimately preferable to being a divisive film that some
voters love and put at #1 but others might be inclined to rank last – after all, while
the film itself was widely praised, many older traditional Academy voters had long
expressed skepticism that superhero films or indeed any sort of sci-fi movies belonged
in contention at all, while still others balked at rewarding the perceived monopolistic behavior
of the Walt Disney corporation. Either way, at this point I’m less interested
in talking about who would/should/will/won’t/did/didn’t/whatever win than I am about the bigger conversations
surrounding the film’s presence – in this case, the predictable backlash against it
i.e. whether or not this specific film “deserved” what will now forever be the historic distinction
of being the first in it’s genre to even be nominated. Some of which can be dismissed out of hand,
sure – you were always going to have a certain level of fanboyism angst over it not being
a more traditionally-established character and/or franchise like Batman, Superman, one
of the major Avengers… or the notion that it should be something that “elevates”
the genre in the vein of a Watchman or Dark Knight Returns type adaptation (which I’d
argue this does, but we’ll get to that) or that this or that other big comic movie from
the same year should’ve been considered instead or at least “also” which, well… I mean, I’d definitely posit that Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse – which is easily the best animated movie of the year, probably
the best Spider-Man movie ever and very likely a fresh contender for the best of the whole
genre – but it’s very difficult for animated features to get into the Best Picture category
now that there’s a separate category for them. But the rest of the year’s features? Really? Because… that pretty much leaves Venom
(a film where I’m reasonably certain at least half of the “appreciation” is of the ironic
variety) and Aquaman which – okay, look folks: I liked Aquaman a lot, but let’s be real about
this: at least 60% of the whole “Aquaman is actually good” thing was coming from
a very “Andy Kaufman’s Elvis impersonation” kind of place but by accident – i.e. after
almost a decade of every DC movie being different flavors of… just… god-awful (or a full
decade if we’re brutally honest and admit that Dark Knight Rises was pretty lousy outside
Michael Caine and Gary Oldman still being good and getting to see Scarecrow again) except
for the first two acts of Wonder Woman… …the kind of good one that actually connects
with people is this way too big way too expensive Flash Gordon-looking mermaid-barbarian nonsense
about a character popular culture has been using as a punchline for half a century and
the absurdity of that fact is kind of freakin’ hilarious: Up is down, cold is hot, dogs are
cats, Trump is President and the biggest DC movie is f—- Auaman – who says the apocalypse
doesnt have a sense of humor? …but if that thing is a Best Picture nominee
Alita: Battle Angel might as well run for Prime Minister of Canada. That leaves Black Panther’s own direct follow-up
in the Marvel Cinematic Universe timeline, Avengers: Infinity War, which… okay, that’s at least worth exploring a
bit: If you’re going to nominate one of the Marvel movies for Best Picture, why not
the bigger of the two from the same year – the one that has galaxy-sized stakes, more
characters, a more complicated storyline, bigger setpieces and that crazy ending where
half the universe turns to dust… is that not the bigger, more important-to-the-continuity
and thus better Marvel Movie?? …okay yeah I know this isn’t actually
a difficult question to parse but there really are people who sincerely think like this,
so… look, this is what we’re doing this week, okay? Anyway – to some (ahem!) fans the rational
is both simple to figure out and deeply unfair: It’s all about posturing and political “pandering.” Black Panther (according to such folks) is
really just another Marvel movie adhering to the established MCU solo movie formula,
but it got a lot of extra media attention for having an overwhelmingly-Black cast, touching
on themes of racism and pan-African colonialism and thus meant something more to a certain
segment of the audience and so The Academy (like the movie press) is overrating and giving
it kudos it doesn’t really deserve in order to score woke social justice points from…
whichever imaginary lizard-people conspiracy administration people who’s minds work this
way believe keeps track of and hands out said points. So, okay, that’s obviously excessively stupid
– but if you take that out of the answer pool where does it leave you? After all, the two films are kind of similar:
They occupy the same genre, they’re part of the same universe, feature a bunch of the
same characters; and they’re both driven by a confrontation between previously-established
heroes and a charismatic villain who wants to do a very bad thing for sort-of understandable
or at least able-to-be-empathized-with reasons – so what’s the difference? Well… execution, mostly – and I’m not
mostly or even mainly talking about Black Panther being a better directed movie (though
I think it is, overall: It’s better paced, more lush cinematography, better hand to hand
fight choreography, more dynamic editing and composition and its exterior location shooting
does a generally better job of looking like we’re really in a magical hidden African
kingdom or Hong Kong or wherever as opposed to interchangeable portions of rural Georgia
– though yes Infinity War on balance has better CGI and a few more elaborate scenes like
the brawl on Titan or the big space-forge sequence) and it is a good movie as well. What I’m talking about more specifically
is thematic execution… or, phrased another way, Black Panther being the superhero movie
that finally “broke through” with Oscar voters isn’t really about the politics that
it has so much as that it has them at all. Again, consider that both films turn on the
actions of villains who believe their actions actually make them the heroes: In Infinity War,
Josh Brolin’s Thanos believes that resource-scarcity will cause universal social-collapse
and he’s trying to build a doomsday weapon that will let him kill half of all life in
order to make that not happen. The Avengers and Guardians, aligned to stop
him, recognize that however logical this might be from Thanos’ perspective… it’s the
logic of a lunatic space-monster who needs to be stopped because evil is evil and good
is good. It’s secondary plot and story concerns center
on magic rocks, where to get them, whose worthy of using them, extremely general questions
of self-sacrifice and… not really much else – which is fine, because the Avengers team-ups
aren’t so much about advancing the metaplot or developing character as they are getting
everyone together for a big wacky party celebrating all the plot-advancement and character development
that went on in their solo movies. By contrast, Black Panther’s version of
a similar villain-instigated-narrative is that Michael B. Jordan’s “Eric Killmonger”
believes that Wakanda’s policy of isolationism have made them both directly and indirectly
complicit in the ongoing systemic racial-oppression of Black people elsewhere in the world – including,
in more direct terms, the impoverished and fatherless childhood that helped twist him
into what he is now – and he seeks to usurp the nation’s throne seize control of its
high-tech weaponry and use it to instigate a global race-war… with secondary story
concerns centering on multiple other characters debating the actual nuances of these very
same issues within the real-world historical context colonialism, the African Diaspora
and even United States imperialist military policy. In effect, Black Panther – while yes, still
featuring plenty of big action scenes where characters battle one another using flashy
costumes and high-tech weapons – is the rare sci-fi/fantasy blockbuster that engages in
worldbuilding wish-fulfillment “what if” scenarios (in this case, imagining an afro-futurist
alternate-history of a Black African nation that was allowed to thrive and evolve on its
own without the interference of white colonialism or the slave trade) with the intent of calling
“waitaminute!” on the fantasy in question: Presenting an idealized vision of Wakanda
that understands the base-appeal (and, in this case at least, historically-sympathetic
logic) of what is more or less boils down to a fantasy protectionist ethnostate…
…but then actually explores the concept and comes away concluding that Killmonger
kinda had a point – even as his methods were wrong and ultimately goal was off-base. As such, the film takes the form (however
optimistic it is about the eventual future) of an epic tragedy: The Black Panther himself
is changed by his conflict with Killmonger to the point where his long-held beliefs about
his own place in the world, the traditions of his country and the values of his own ancestors
are profoundly shaken to the point where he ends up agreeing (at least in general) with
the perspective of the villain: That Wakanda had been doing it wrong, that the world needs
to be engaged, isolationism is bad, walls don’t work when it comes to geopolitics,
etc… even as Killmonger himself, an even more tragic figure, is unable to extricate
himself from the lifetime of pain and history of racial violence that corrupted his soul
and hardened his heart – choosing to exit with a line that cements him as the MCU (if
not the entire superhero genre to this point’s!) most compelling antagonist ever. “Just bury me in the ocean, with my
ancestors that just from the ships. Because they know death was better than bondage.” And that right there would the difference between “a damn good comic book movie”
and “a damn good comic book movie… that also deserves to be called one of the straight-up
best films of the year. I’m Bob and that’s The Big Picture.

100 Comments

  1. auqifx Author

    …but black panther was overared. If you think that race had Nothing to do with it, that's kinda silly. The ammount of excitement it created from the black community on it's own was enough to make the movie a sucess before it even came out. But it's not a great movie, I can't imagine it making it into anyone's top 3 marvel films The final cgi fights were terrible, the characters were all cookie cutter, except for killmonger and black panther himself. Avengers had a dozen unique characters with human reactions to the insanity around them. But you're meant to have seen like 20 movies before it to enjoy it fully, pretty sure that is an obstacle for the oscars. That and the bombastic nature of the film itself

    Reply
  2. Igor Ćirović Author

    Let's be brutally honest here – as much as we might enjoy superhero movies, none of them is Oscar-worthy material, at least when it comes to the Best Picture category. Talking about Black Panther specifically, the movie was entertaining and visually interesting, but that's about it. The villain was awful – his best moment was his dialog with the museum curator, everything else was so badly written and equally badly acted that it's not even worthy of mentioning. There's nothing about it that was worthy of a nomination, let alone the award. Then again, the Oscars have really gone down the drain in the last few years, but so have the movies Hollywood has to offer.

    Reply
  3. Nabeel Work Author

    There are alot movies who got Oscars who didn't deserve it i want Black Panther to win because it pisses of the alt right retards on the internet

    Reply
  4. Vilmos Magyar Author

    I havent seen green book, but a year where black panther is the best movie is pretty sad. Its a paint by numbers superhero film with the gimmick of having a black country as the center of its storyline. It has borderline cringeworthy plot points and while the films energy is nice, it doesnt have the personality of Spider Man into the spider verse, its okay but it didnt excite me that much.

    Reply
  5. tronoification Author

    I dont really care. But i still think the academy should pick good movies not politically charged movies. And Infinity war was just better.

    Reply
  6. Hydra572HQ Author

    I don't think people liked Aquaman because of Andy Kaufman. I think they liked it because it was an engaging, special effects heavy, action movie, with plenty of pretty people delivering acceptable performances.

    Reply
  7. Nik Hulstein Author

    Wakanda didn thrive because of the absence of Colonialism, Wakanda thrived because of Vibranium. Any argument that the society in question of able to thrive because of their own volition is BS, because they completely relied on an outside force, being vibranium, for that power.

    Reply
  8. John N Author

    BP had so much going for it. My personal opinion is that it was hurt by MBJ's performance which was, at best, uneven. Killmonger is a fabulously nuanced villain made two-dimensional by Jordan's execution. I don't think Jordan's a terrible actor by any stretch, but when he was in a room with Forest Whitaker, Chadwick Boseman or Angela Bassett, he appeared obviously and woefully in over his head. That closing line was perfectly written for Killmonger, but felt ham-fisted coming from MBJ. Just my two cents.

    Reply
  9. Wiritpol Lapcharoenporn Author

    Bob we are in a war now… I hate to say the fan was gearing up for a war with Disney.

    It will get bloody soon… But seriously I think Aquaman deserve the break

    Reply
  10. Bobby Brown Author

    Black Panther was only nomitated on the fact it was a big social movement behind the film and what it represented… not because it was a good film. FACT. Its fuckn hilarious it was even nominated!

    Reply
  11. theblocksays Author

    Head still up Maaahvel's ass huh, and nice little arrogant "what, you're suppose to like Aquaman IRONICALLY silly boi" line there. Of course I don't think it was oscar worthy but it was still fun moviegoing experience. Some of us still go to movies to be entertained, not to go away and lecture all the unwashed masses how oh so "woke" it was and deserves every industry golden ego-suppository. But sure, keep second guessing everyone else's reason for not thinking BP should get a best picture cause this really matters to you Bob.

    Reply
  12. john sheperd Author

    Look, I like black panther.
    I LOVED Infinity War.
    Black panther is not as good as Infinity war, Winter Soldier, or Guardians of the Galaxy.
    It's not Thor the dark world or iron man 2 bad either. It's ok, alright, adequate, serviceable, it's fine.
    And if I get called racist because I don't think it's a great movie, that's kind of the whole reason for people to hate it more. Because of the whole loud minority of PC culture.

    Reply
  13. Sjthjs Dread Father Author

    Black Panther won Oscars because of what it represented. Not because it was a good movie. There are far superior MCU film out there. Thor Ragnorok, GOTG 1 Am and 2, Winter Soldier, Spiderman Homecoming, Infinity War, even the First Avenger

    Reply
  14. seraphonica Author

    You didn't happen to mention Deadpool 2 as another comic book movie released in 2018 that could be considered for Best Picture… and bless you for that.

    Reply
  15. GammaWALLE Author

    3:00 you shut yer mouth, gawd dangit. Yes, Tom Hardy’s Bane developed a rather unfortunate alt-right fanbase, but a broken nazi clock is right twice a century and Bane being a hammy, memeilicious asshole was one of those two times.

    EDIT: nah, Wonder Woman was awesome start-to-finish.

    Reply
  16. GammaWALLE Author

    I’d argue that Black Panther was better purely because the most hyped up thing about it was actually good.

    Film Industry: “Aww snap! This movie absolutely NAILED its political message!”
    Me: “Cool story, bro!” [gives thumbs up]

    Film Industry: “Aww snap! The bad guy won in this and killed off half a bunch of beloved characters in a creepy and unsettling way at the end that’s just going to be undone in Avengers 4 in with lame ass time-travel!”
    Me: “Uhh… cool story, bro…” [cringes]

    Reply
  17. Joseph Abrams Author

    Black panther’s main flaw is that Marvel shot themselves in the foot by casting Idriss Elba as Heimdall instead of T’Challa. He would have been much better than Chadwick Boseman.

    Reply
  18. Mishomish0 Author

    I disagree. I think BOTH movies had chances in different categories. I believe both are really good movies with different levels of accomplishments. And to be honest I came out of Black Panther sad due to the conflict but I came absolutely devastated from Avengers Infinity War. Sure the death of multiple fictional characters is laughable as a concept or argument for emotional weight unless you consider most movie pivotal deaths are about fictional characters.

    Reply
  19. xxxaragon Author

    while I'm not sure about this particular example, please don't act like big corporations, organisations etc. trying to come across as being "woke"/socially progressive for the sake of their image (…) is not a thing that actually exists.

    I mean, a good example is the recent Gilette commercial. do I think it's cool that they are going with a different type of "masculinity" approach? of course I do.

    but do I believe they are doing it – or at least were initially thinking about it – because after decades and decades of presenting a different image of what constitues "being a man" they realized that it might not be so great after all? no way.

    Reply
  20. xxxaragon Author

    sidenote: regarding "Black Panther", I don't think Kilmonger was "right", at least not much more than T'Challa himself. I mean, there is a huge difference between "Wakanda should not hide anymore. and instead aid the world/specific countries to make it a better place" and "Wakanda should not hide anymore. and instead wage a war against "white" countries".

    Reply
  21. Bruce Wayne Author

    This is so dumb – an arrogant man-child with zero understanding or appreciation for art presenting a worthless argument poorly. Thanks for contributing to the destruction of cinema.

    Reply
  22. gajogrande Author

    I still disagree, however your point of view is valid. It is refreshing to see opposite points of view based on arguments and not the "you're either a racist or a SJW" thing.
    Green book was enjoyable too. Yes, it did have a gay black character in a racist setting, oscar bait these days, however it did not seem like forced morals. I would call them self-service morals, you only take them if you wish. Shoving ideas down people´s throats is very counterproductive.

    Reply
  23. Omar' Commin Author

    Yeah, Infinity is a better movie and by far a more entertaining one, Black Panther's merits rest solely on representation which only America gives a shit about, and once you take that away it doesn't even fall under top 5 MCU films so yeah, nominate it all you want

    Reply
  24. Kevin Fischer Author

    Green Book was an immensely satisfying film.
    I did some research this morning, and I understand that Don Shirley's family is upset that they were not consulted. However, Don supposedly asked Nick Vallelonga not to talk to his family if he was going to make a film about him. He also asked to wait until he died. Vallelonga wrote Don based on interviews he had with Don and his father while they were alive.
    I think this film respected Don's wishes. It succeeded in making me relate to Don's isolation. It introduced me to Don's beautiful music.
    I think it well deserved the Oscar.

    Reply
  25. Paul MeBallbag Author

    May i also add that a black advanced society that has space ships are so advanced that they picked their leaders by stabbing each other, which is really funny if you think about it.

    Reply
  26. Akirus Gauge Author

    This guy really hates Aquaman. Why would anyone hate Aquaman?

    The guy talks to fish… How many Supers do you know that can do that?

    Everyone has super strength, durability and flight.

    Respect Aquaman.

    (if my sarcasm wasn't clear please forgive me)

    Reply
  27. cam. etc. Author

    Better fighting and cinematography? From a director who only shot indie films before Black Panther? Nah bruh.

    Black Panther lightly touched on a lot of things, didn't go in too deep with anything. As a black guy, I wasn't really sure what the hype was all about. Thanos was a far better villain, with a crazy yet understandable premise that he has shown worked. Killmonger, while probably being the 2nd best Marvel villain, isn't that complex. The racial and colonial themes are very surfacy. It tried tackle to many things at the same time failed to really deliver on anything. It wasn't great. But it wasn't bad either. I don't really feel like it's a movie I need to see more of. It wasn't that entertaining. The comedy was cringy ("WHAT ARE THOSE" REALLY DISNEY) at times. This is the issue with films that forcibly try to cram political and racial themes too hard into a film. You can have media that does this well. Night Of The Living Dead is a great example of that. Black Panther is just meh. I feel like the only reason it's getting this kind of attention is because its themes are in a different genre of film, not because of the art of the film itself. Best picture means BEST PICTURE overall. Everything about the movie was average.

    Reply
  28. ParadoxPlant Author

    Saying Black Panther is worthy of Oscar is like saying Star Wars should have won Oscars years ago. It tackles points and has interesting set pieces but doesnt match the ballot criteria

    Reply
  29. Rump Buffalo Author

    Maybe Black Panther didn't win because it was just above average as a movie, outside of its cultural relevance? I liked it, but… it's just decent from a technical standpoint. Does that not matter to anyone? I don't think infinity war should have been nominated in its place either.

    Reply
  30. Denys Lalande Author

    There's Just One Major Problem With Killmonger's Last Words: I have a news-flash for ya, Eric — the blacks who got off the slave ships before reaching the Americas didn't Jump — THEY WERE THROWN…. Which kind-of trashes the whole point he was trying to make: The ones who Got Off Early WERE ALREADY DEAD, ya nob! Just goes to show what happens when someone Does Not Do The Research….

    And frankly: Bohemian Rhapsody deserved BP — who needs superheroes when, as shown, we had Demi-Gods….

    Reply
  31. 234gp79h;w gwoRF124 Author

    Black Panther was just another super hero movie, It is also on a very large scale… we learn that there is a entire secret COUNTRY that has better tech than Stark Industry's.

    Reply
  32. onlyonewhyphy Author

    So, you're writing articles that attack other YouTubers now, even without evidence for your accusations.
    Oh well. This has been a long time coming. Unsubbed.
    I think I can live without your only decent show, Zero Punctuation. I'll just catch someone else's compilation of a given year. They can have the ad revenue, cos God knows you cunts don't deserve anything but my spit.

    Reply
  33. MeiLeaf Author

    I think your dismissal of certain points based on the most extreme side of them is a little…well not good. I'd argue the increase in majority minority cast films being nominated and winning such awards could possibly be seen as an over correction of the big "oscars so white" controversy a couple years back. I think that is probably the most realistic explanation for why Black Panther was the first super hero movie nominated. I'm not trying to say that it didn't deserve it over others. Just that it's possible the only reason it was even looked at over any other movie in contention for nomination was it's primarily black cast and the nomination committee looking for films to help them cast off the "oscars so white" controversy. The dismissal of movies of this nature being nominated for ulterior motives based notion of movies being nominated because some liberal lizard person conspiracy what not is basically looking at the most extreme takes on it.

    Reply
  34. Awful Artist Author

    So…has accusing the people who disagreed with you of bigotry ever pushed them over to your way of thinking? Not trying to make a point here. I'm really asking.

    Reply
  35. Moto andGivi Author

    scumbag channel, scumbag fake news, lowlife scum writers. 'award winning', more like participation prize for being a good soyboy!

    Reply
  36. the Psycho Superman Author

    Reading your high school essay like it's a run on sentence doesn't cover up your bullshit. Your position is indefensible. The Oscars have become no different than the MTV iteration; if not worse. Over the scope of modern superhero films, it isn't nearly the best let alone a best film of the year. This kind of nonsense is a spit in the face of many, many talented people.

    A gypsy told me Captain Marvel wins next year, that it will inspire Quentin Tarantino to make his last film a re-imagining of Birds of Prey. The all female roster will be played by transgender actors. It will sweep the Oscars and earn Quentin a lifetime achievement award. I dropped a couple bills on her table with a "Thanks for the warning" and a wink. I actually think we should make it a private affair with the arrival being the only public engagement. It would be better for everyone to separate us more.

    Reply
  37. Bull Session Author

    Good lord Bob, the first half of this video is one of the most insufferably pretentious things you've ever made. And that's really saying something.

    Reply
  38. Pavel Author

    So first you call out people who thought BP was nominated for political reasons (har har they're so stuuupid, har har!), and then you go on to explain all of the political reasons why it was nominated? Bravo sir.

    Remember when movies won awards for being good movies, rather than for pushing or exploring this or that political issue? Least of all when said political issue is explored with a heavy handed Hollywood bias and covered on the level of an 18 year old college freshman taking their first PoliSci class.

    And that's not to say that BP was a bad movie (it wasn't) or that cinema can't explore political topics (it can). But to win an Oscar one hopes you would also need to be a great movie, independent of the politics. Infinity War had better action, much better comedy, better acting and better CGI. But go ahead, keep defending BP's nomination with that smug pretentiousness, I'm sure you'll convince a lot of people.

    Reply
  39. Kevin Learner Author

    its not that i disagree with you, but ffs, you're such a twat bob. you could at least admit that there was a bit of pandering involved.

    Reply
  40. Mike Fayed Author

    I agree with a lot of what Bob said, but I also feel like he's glossing over a lot of things that hardcore fans of something tend to gloss over; idea v execution.

    1. Killmonger certainly has the most nuance of most comic book villains, sure, and his is an ideal that makes sense in a very practical manner. But you can't be the best comic book villain if you're a character who is kind of squandered, whose entire arc is rushed. This is the same character who vanishes completely for almost an entirely hour, and by the time he takes center stage, the actual "discussion" of his tragedy and justifiable anger is glossed over for yet another paint-by-numbers CG fight instead of actually delving into the politics and having T'Challa really sit down and learn something from his cousin. He's a villain who's excellent in theory, but in execution, doesn't get the screentime he and Michael B. Jordan deserved because Black Panther tries to be two films crammed in one.

    2. There are many who don't believe any MCU film deserves to be nominated for often seeming like assembly-line filmmaking. Just because Black Panther has something relevant to say doesn't mean the film itself fully explores or embraces the very thing it sets out to comment on.

    3. Many think the mere fact that Black Panther was nominated had less to do with its importance in the Black Community and more cynicism on the part of the Academy which had zero interest in ever awarding it Best Picture. The Academy is losing viewers with each passing year, unless some horrible screw-up happens. I think it's a fair comment that the film, while strong, isn't necessarily Oscar worthy. Doesn't mean any of the other films that weren't Spider-Verse deserved to be nominated in its' stead, certainly not Avengers 3 Part 1. But to many, Black Panther's nomination is less a testament to the actual strengths of the film, and more a testament of how the Academy wants to appear less out of touch than it truly is.

    4. Gimme a break with that 'TKDR is lousy' nonsense. 'XD The Dark Knight Rises had some issues, like any Nolan film, but it was still an incredibly well-crafted film with filmmaking and cinematography no comic book film has topped since. It featured a menacing, memorable villain in the form of Bane, whom Tom Hardy and the costume designers gave immediate, iconic distinction. Batman appeared about as much as he did in Batman Begins, yet no one made a stink about the first film "barely having any Batman" in it. That's because the Nolan Trilogy was always a Bruce-first narrative.

    I think a lot of the points you made overall are points I can either agree with or at least see where you're coming from. But I think you're lumping all the people who weren't enamored by Black Panther with those idiots who bugger on and on about how it's "SJW-y" or whatever bollocks these simple-minded tossers love to prattle on about.

    Reply
  41. Philippe Duhart Author

    Your entire analysis is thoroughly undermined by the fact that Green Book won for precisely the reasoning you called "excessively stupid."

    Reply
  42. Redtiger Author

    So yeah, pretty much what I've been saying the whole time. I get it that Spiderverse was animated and blah blah, but maybe if we pushed to get that nominated or something it could have gotten more attention. Hardly anyone I know has seen that movie and if you're going to watch a superhero movie, you should watch that one. It deserved best picture period. Black Panther was hardly about the titular character, so much so that they killed him in the middle of it. And that's why I don't like it Bob, not because I'm a fucking racist that believes in lizard people. I can recognize and understand the plights that black people have gone through in America. And if you think the Oscars don't understand when they need to at least nominate something, lest they have a social media firestorm on their hands, you need to get a clue man.

    Reply
  43. ishner Author

    Your strawman showes when you claim the far right nutjobs think points are given out by lizardpeople.
    The concept of currying favor with a particular demographic is not hard to understand, and the silliness of the abstraction of reputation into points is not salient to the meaning.
    In misrepresenting your opponents you only disgrace yourself.
    A better representation of those who lash back against the popularity is the movie is as follows:

    The characterisation of that villain as sympathetic is abhorrent. The man literally advocated genocide and oppression on the basis of race. This makes N'Jadaka no better than a Nazi or a klansman. Racism against whites is no less racism; it is evil.
    Moreover, we have seen this belief that racism against whites is heroism repeatedly in history. It has been writ large in groups like the Black Panthers of the 1960s after whom the character was named and writ small as "affirmative action". For this to be seen as anything but the abhorance it is by the general public makes us afraid. The Jews in Germany thought it could not happen to them, but history has shown us that it can happen to anyone.

    Stepping over this makes you seem like an ideologue.

    At the end of the day though, I agree that black panther was a better movie. As you said, the direction was better, the afro-futurist ascetic is excellent, and it presented real issues. In contrast to what you said, I found the portrayal of a realistic yet completely unsympathetic villain quite compelling. Both N'Jadaka and T'Challa behaved like believable humans, unlike Thanos who behaved like an idiot child unfamiliar with how exponential growth works.

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  44. Tyrone Barnes Author

    Funny how Bob outright denies the very real situation where victimhood and marginalization are now a valuable currency regularly used to exchange (read: extort) benefits from the larger society.

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  45. Jean-Philippe Doyon Author

    Well…at least it was not like last year when Blade Runner 2049 was snubbed for best picture and should have won for doing the impossible, doing a sequel to the most cultural changing sci-fi movie of all time and doing it right by adding to the universe…love Shape of Water and Get Out but so not in the same level it hurts…This year…you add almost no real choice but Roma and Green Book, safe or unsafe movie somehow movie…Star is born was too predictable, Black Panther too new, BlackKKlansman too hot to touch, Bohemian Rahpsody only there for popularity, The favorite for history purpose and Vice because political but no way….so logic won sadly…

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  46. Jean-Philippe Doyon Author

    Hate the genre stigma of the best picture nomination now…it's whats killing the Oscars big time…so many great horror, sci-fi, superhero movie and fantasy movie being deep and better than most of the best picture…it's embarassing now really…

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  47. TheMetaright Author

    4:37

    Well, if you're not going to actually respond to the argument, and insist on just instantly dismissing every idea you disagree with, your videos probably aren't worth the time they take to watch. Sad to see that the Escapist is attempting to populate its channel with more content yet Zero Punctuation remains the only thing worth watching.

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  48. Adam Basinger Author

    Black panther also had a shit ton of historical symbolism thrown in, one of which you showed there at the end, that help make it the fucking tits

    Off the top of my head (I admit its been a while since I saw the movie so my memory is a bit hazy)

    The symbolism of Killmonger choosing to break his spear in his fight against Panther to be just the handle and blade being similar to the change in tactics Shaka, or better known to the west as shaka zulu, did in order to completely up end his tribes way of fighting, going from using long spears slung from a distance and where "wars" as much as they were fought in his corner of t he world were just a bunch of guys showing up somewhere with no formation or tactics and slinging spears and insults at each other for an afternoon, not many people were injured or killed and the conflict would basically stop there (ie no going on to conquer the defeated groups village) and a few acres of land or a couple cows would change hand. War was ceremonial, it had no bite to it. Shaka changed that, changed the spear to that shortened hand to hand combat version and used tactics. He turned war into something of conquest and utterly transformed his small pastoral tribe into a bloodthirsty empire that utterly changed war in the region, unleashed a wave of chaos and bloodshed known to those in the region as the Mefakane or "the crushing" as those they conquered fled taking that zulu style of combat with them in and used it on others.

    Shaka changed his world greatly, improved on this style of fighting and built an empire that would give the British Empire trouble with no gunpowder weapons to speak of and only spears and woven shields. And Killmonger, in his duel, breaks the longer spear into a short spear. Just like zulu. Two great african men seeking to change their society and world and who are eager to use violence to do so.

    Killmonger says after ascending to the throne, during which he enters with the camera upside down signaling that he is upending everything, while seeking to fight against the powers that had wreaked so much destruction and death on the continent, declares after laying out his plan "the sun will never set on the wakandan empire". This was an extremely common addage in the UK, the two ideas being that the British empire covered so much of the earth, that at all times there was a part of the empire where it was day and that this empire is eternal. He uses the language of the empire that conquered and destroyed so many people and places in africa, and was largely responsible for the trans atlantic chattle slave trade until they outlawed it (which largely ended that trade proving my point) and using it for his own theoretically antithetical intentions. Part of his character is that he was trained by the powers that did so much of what he finds abhorent. He rages against them while that place made him. He is broken and simultaneously made powerful the way he is by his very interaction with the colonial powers responsible for what he fights.

    And finally, yeah, in his dying breath he asks to be buried in the ocean, like the slaves who fought on the ships plying the atlantic. However, like them, their deaths enacted no great change. Them dying didn't change things, only those who lived on were able to do so. and so it falls to T'challa to make the world a better place.

    Although, if I had one nitpick, its that yeah the setting is impossible. Not in the sense that "hey magic space metal panther powers etc" would be impossible, but that no culture no matter how rich and powerful could rise in isolation from the rest of the world. It just couldn't happen and it never ever has. At any point. Kinda proves the point that opening up is good, but it was something that niggled at me as a history student. Not a race thing, or geographic, just that no culture, not anything in europe, or china, or japan, wherever, could reach the modern day without taking input from the rest of the world. However, if anyone uses that to say the whole movie is shit, they can go fuck themselves. Its the equivelent of an aerospace eingineer knowing the actual mechanical reasons why iron mans suit couldn't work like it does or an expert in radiation knowing precisly what actually happens when a human is exposed to a shit ton of gamma rays. Its part of the setting, and suspension of disbelief.

    TLDR: God this movie is fucking great and fuck anyone who reckons this wasn't that much different than any other marvel movie, this shit has gears and they are spinning.

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  49. Nathan Boatright Author

    Im kinda calling it now capt marvel is going to be up for awards. Because its a movie that stars a woman I liked capt mavel but its not worth of awards out side of vfx and sound

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  50. Robert Fantozzi Author

    I loved black panther. I don’t get why the Internet seems to not like it. The critics loved it, the box office and cultural attention shows everyone else loved it too, and every person I talk to in person and know in person loved it. Why does everyone on the Internet not like it?

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